Posts by Sea Breeze

8

Were early Gentile Christians familiar with the FATHER OF JESUS?

by pistolpete in

the first christians were mainly of jewish decent and christianity began as a jewish sect.

jesus was a thoroughly dedicated practicing jew who never suggested the launch of a new religion.

jesus lived and died a dedicated jew.

Sea Breeze

And they had No idea to what extant Paul had deviated from the message that they preach of Jesus Christ.

Pistolpete, let's review the Facts:

1. We know Paul spent 15 days in Peter's house. James - Jesus' brother was also there for the discussions as well.

2. 14 years later, Paul comes to Jerusalem where he updates the other apostles on what he has been teaching the Gentiles and they "add nothing to him" and all extend the right hand of fellowship.

3. Then after that, Peter writes this:

2 Pet. 3: 15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.

17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

Paul was a first rate philosopher. Just read his writings and you will see that. Peter defends Paul when some were taking what Paul wrote and were twisting into it into something that it wasn't.... to their own destruction. He warned about being "led away" by the error of the wicked - presumably those that were twisting Paul's words. Peter calls Paul a "beloved brother".

Peter also wrote on the same topics as Paul, like the Substitutionary Atonement :

Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 1 Peter 2: 24

1 Pet. 3: 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened [made alive] by the Spirit:

The Watchtower rejects the Substitutionary Atonement taught by Peter and Paul and tries to claim that Jesus paid back what Adam lost! Not much has changed.

The facts above do not support your proposed dual gospel. In Galatians 1: 8-9 Paul announces a double curse for anyone who preaches a different gospel than what he and the other believers preached.

Substitutionary Atonement and Vicarious death have been bedrock Christian doctrine since the beginning unto this very day. Thousands of years of vicarious animal sacrifice in the OT prepared people for not only the concept of vicarious punishment, but also for the appearance of the Lamb of God who died in our place.

It is an amazingly unified message that spans scores of writers, over more than a dozen centuries.

8

Were early Gentile Christians familiar with the FATHER OF JESUS?

by pistolpete in

the first christians were mainly of jewish decent and christianity began as a jewish sect.

jesus was a thoroughly dedicated practicing jew who never suggested the launch of a new religion.

jesus lived and died a dedicated jew.

Sea Breeze

As Gentiles starting converting to Paul’s form of Christianity, (For he was an apostle to the Gentiles only) the basis of conversion was on the teachings of Paul and not the teachings of the 12 apostles of Jesus. The teaching of both were very different.

Whoa... not so fast. Galatians 2 :

"Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother....

Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas, and took Titus with me also... And I...communicated unto them that gospel which I preach among the Gentiles...lest by any means I should run, or had run, in vain. .....they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me...they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter... to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles.

And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship;"

Pistolpete: If your assertions are true, why didn't the other apostles add anything to Paul when he went to Jerusalem to check if the message he had been preaching was the same as the one the other apostles were preaching?

33

Should Biden Have Mandated Vaccinations Today?

by Sea Breeze in

biden mandated widespread covid shots today.. "we've been patient," biden announced.

"but our patience is wearing thin, and your refusal has cost all of us.".

.

Sea Breeze

The J&J jab is supposed to be a more traditional approach to vaccination without tweaking the DNA.

32

Jehovah GOD a failed GOD in many respects.

by smiddy3 in

jw
friends

isn`t there enough evidence to acknowledge the god of the bible has been a failure ?according to wt / jw teachings ?.

a god that has supposed to have created the visible universe and everything in it ?.

some points where i would challenge that from an earthlings point of view using the bible if only in paraphrase.. doesn`t god create everything perfect ?

Sea Breeze

God could allow evil to happen...but protect the innocent and punish the evil ones

Anony Mous - Thanks for playing along.

How can God allow evil while at the same time protect the innocent? I see at least two problems with that scenario.

First, of all evil requires victims. Evil is only apparent when acted upon. Its like designing an engine without fuel. You will never have measurable evil without victims. Evil and its victims are integral components of free-will and prove its existence is real.

Secondly,

There is no one innocent. Kids before the age of accountability are the exception. We have all broken the 10 commandments.

A slightly modified version of what you suggest is carefully laid out by a man who walked out of a tomb, making it very difficult for a thinking person to ignore what he said: "You must be born again".

This creates the "innocent" that you posit in your scenario. Your scenario now looks more like a biblical model of salvation.

God may judge sin, he doesn’t execute any judgements when it is relevant.

I think that is a more legitimate concern. Two things: There is something called instant karma that happens. People draw into their life what they project out and it can be substantial misery. This isn't judgment, but some sort of natural law on how things work.

Hebrews 9:27 reads "it is appointed unto man once to die and then judgement".

God placed the primary time to judge after a person has died. This life is not a time of judgement but of grace.

"I did not come into the world to judge it, but to save it" - Jesus

We could take issue with God's lack of judging in the here and now....but once he starts the judging, he'll have to see it until the end.

Which would largely prohibit the formation of the "innocent" in your scenario, since we are all guilty.

32

Jehovah GOD a failed GOD in many respects.

by smiddy3 in

jw
friends

isn`t there enough evidence to acknowledge the god of the bible has been a failure ?according to wt / jw teachings ?.

a god that has supposed to have created the visible universe and everything in it ?.

some points where i would challenge that from an earthlings point of view using the bible if only in paraphrase.. doesn`t god create everything perfect ?

Sea Breeze

Angels and some humans will always rebel... ,whereby Jehovah will have to kill them off.

Isn`t that a fail?

Smiddy, it sounds like you want free will and no punishment for evil at the same time. Is that a fair assessment of your criticism of God?

That would be option number one in my list below of possible reactions a Supreme Being could have in regards to evil.

I only see three choices regarding sin (or evil) :

1. God can enable it by forever letting it happen

2. God could make it impossible through instinctual programming and loss of free will

3. God can judge sin

Do you see ANY another possibility?

So Smiddy, is that your answer? Number 1 is the best choice in your opinion?

In this scenario, do you think that forever allowing evil to exist would in fact make God an enabler of evil, since he has the power to do "something" about it but chooses not to do so?

32

Jehovah GOD a failed GOD in many respects.

by smiddy3 in

jw
friends

isn`t there enough evidence to acknowledge the god of the bible has been a failure ?according to wt / jw teachings ?.

a god that has supposed to have created the visible universe and everything in it ?.

some points where i would challenge that from an earthlings point of view using the bible if only in paraphrase.. doesn`t god create everything perfect ?

Sea Breeze

I don`t believe in the God of the Bible

Now you are stalling Smiddy. You believed in him enough to name him in the title of your thread and assume his existence, right?

4

"Seven nations more populous than you are"

by FFGhost in

i wrote this up a few months ago:.

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/5087628499091456/camp-israel-problem-pooping.

this other little nugget from deuteronomy caught my eye as well:.

Sea Breeze

WTS dogmatically asserts that the number of Israelite nomads, at the time of their conquest of the promised land, was 3 million.

Why would you assume anything the WT says is true? I've heard of estimates in the 30,000 range.

32

Jehovah GOD a failed GOD in many respects.

by smiddy3 in

jw
friends

isn`t there enough evidence to acknowledge the god of the bible has been a failure ?according to wt / jw teachings ?.

a god that has supposed to have created the visible universe and everything in it ?.

some points where i would challenge that from an earthlings point of view using the bible if only in paraphrase.. doesn`t god create everything perfect ?

Sea Breeze

Sea Breeze, do you believe this was God's intention right from the very beginning, when he created humans? Did God set things up in such a way in order to lead humans to the conclusion, that the best way humans could use their free will, would be to choose to have their free will curtailed?

I do believe that. But, it gets better. God figured out a way to preserve the death penalty for sin.... (any sin) while at the same time allowing for people to be saved who are well acquainted with evil, their own and that from others and are able to see first hand its effects and consequences.... without having to personally pay the penalty for such experiential knowledge. Wow!

It is obvious God doesn't want robots, but those who are willing to prove to themselves what is that "good and acceptable and perfect will of God. "

32

Jehovah GOD a failed GOD in many respects.

by smiddy3 in

jw
friends

isn`t there enough evidence to acknowledge the god of the bible has been a failure ?according to wt / jw teachings ?.

a god that has supposed to have created the visible universe and everything in it ?.

some points where i would challenge that from an earthlings point of view using the bible if only in paraphrase.. doesn`t god create everything perfect ?

Sea Breeze

I don`t accept the concept of sin .There is evil and crimes

Just use whichever word you like then. All three are similar enough. Are you ever going to comment on my questions? They are fair questions. You started this thread. I'm not trying to be cocky, I'm just really curious how you would work through that.

32

Jehovah GOD a failed GOD in many respects.

by smiddy3 in

jw
friends

isn`t there enough evidence to acknowledge the god of the bible has been a failure ?according to wt / jw teachings ?.

a god that has supposed to have created the visible universe and everything in it ?.

some points where i would challenge that from an earthlings point of view using the bible if only in paraphrase.. doesn`t god create everything perfect ?

Sea Breeze

"Sea Breeze, are you saying we have to ask God to make it impossible for us to sin?

Yes. We sin because it is our nature to do so. Since we are disconnected from the Source of Life, we decay. God doesn't save a person just from judgement. He saves them for life with him.

He himself is the greatest gift and purpose in life. But, we have to be sinless to fellowship with him. A new spirit is the down-payment in this life. Full payment is in the resurrection/rapture when we are glorified into immortality and the sin nature is removed.

TruthBKnown:

“Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.”

"to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" - Romans 4: 4

The more a person tries to "gain God's approval" through their good works, church (or any other means other than the cross) , the more debt they will have to pay for on Judgement Day. Let that sink in a minute. Quite a paradox don't you think?

This is why the Watchtower uses phrases that appeals to our sinful flesh:

"Gain God's Approval"

"on the path that leads to Life"

"Identify God's channel of communication he is using today"

Do, Do, Do ...Blah, Blah, Blah

Jesus last words were, "It is finished".

DONE